Current SSD setup recommendations for laptop with Debian

On Tuesday, July 03, 2012 09:49:17 PM Nick Lidakis wrote:

I've decided to replace the failing hard disk on my Debian Thinpad with an
SSD. As I use the laptop in a harsh mobile environment, I decided to get
and SSD. This one:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...6820167122

Then, I decided to Google SSD in relation to formatting, partitions and
Debian/Linux. Seems there's a lot of old information; people saying some
techniques for SSD setup are plain wrong; arguments about enabling TRIM;
laptop setup vs SSD and HDD setup; etc., etc.

The Debian SSD wiki (http://wiki.debian.org/SSDoptimization) leaves out
"An important aspect in optimizing SSD performance is the file system and
partition layout. Ths wiki page does not cover these issues."

So, it's 2012 and I'm a heavy Firefox user on Thinkpad with 3gigs of RAM.
I'd like to install via a new install cd. What are the current
recommendations? Do I have to do an "alignment"? Does the Debian net
install have the tools necessary to do this or is SSD an option and things
happen automagically? Which file system is recommended for and SSD in a
laptop. fstab options? Anything else before I do my install?

Hi,
I am using the 'Corsair' 60GB SSD and it works fine with PCLinuxOS 32 or 64
bit.
This drive does has built in TRIM, but I understand the all modern SSD's all
have TRIM built in, and work very well.
Gerald


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On 7/3/2012 6:49 AM, Nick Lidakis wrote:

I've decided to replace the failing hard disk on my Debian Thinpad with an
SSD. As I use the laptop in a harsh mobile environment, I decided to get and
SSD. This one:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...6820167122

Then, I decided to Google SSD in relation to formatting, partitions and
Debian/Linux. Seems there's a lot of old information; people saying some
techniques for SSD setup are plain wrong; arguments about enabling TRIM;
laptop setup vs SSD and HDD setup; etc., etc.

The Debian SSD wiki (http://wiki.debian.org/SSDoptimization) leaves out
"An important aspect in optimizing SSD performance is the file system and
partition layout. Ths wiki page does not cover these issues."

So, it's 2012 and I'm a heavy Firefox user on Thinkpad with 3gigs of RAM.
I'd like to install via a new install cd. What are the current
recommendations? Do I have to do an "alignment"? Does the Debian net install
have the tools necessary to do this or is SSD an option and things happen
automagically? Which file system is recommended for and SSD in a laptop.
fstab options? Anything else before I do my install?

There are two kinds of desktop (vs server) users in the world:

1. Those who actually use their desk/lap/top for productive work
2. Those who attempt to tweak the machine to theoretical "perfection"

If you fall into camp #1 you'll simply use the SSD as you would any
rotating disk and you'll be happy. If you fall into camp #2, well,
you'll continue wasting massive amounts of time trying to figure out how
to "perfectly" setup your SSD.

In the end, for your desktop FireFox use case, you'll notice zero
performance or other difference after burning all the time in case #2.

I've been using a low end Corsair 40GB SSD in my XP desktop for about a
year. XP doesn't support TRIM. The difference between the SSD and the
previous Seagate 7.2K drive is what you'd expect, about 50 times faster
random access, 3 second vs 12 second boot time, double the streaming
read, and about 20% faster streaming write, apps launch instantly, cache
FF content allows pages to load nearly instantly, etc.

Thus my advice is to simply use it like you would a rotating disk,
format as usual, install as usual, and enjoy the added performance
without all the angst and second guessing yourself as to whether you did
it "perfectly".

Stan


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On Tue, 03 Jul 2012 18:32:45 -0500, Stan Hoeppner wrote:

If you fall into camp #2, well,
you'll continue wasting massive amounts of time trying to figure out how
to "perfectly" setup your SSD.

That's kind of harsh. IMHO, the OP was only trying to understand this
"entirely new beast" through reading, and found many outdated info and
get confused.

On the other hand, I found your replied info very helpful.

Thanks

Tong (remove underscore(s) to reply)
http://xpt.sourceforge.net/techdocs/
http://xpt.sourceforge.net/tools/


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On 7/3/2012 10:22 PM, T o n g wrote:

On Tue, 03 Jul 2012 18:32:45 -0500, Stan Hoeppner wrote:

If you fall into camp #2, well,
you'll continue wasting massive amounts of time trying to figure out how
to "perfectly" setup your SSD.

That's kind of harsh.

Look around. The world isn't coated with sugar.

On the other hand, I found your replied info very helpful.

People often need to be presented with a healthy dose of realism--what
you call "harsh".

Once the OP asked about "alignment" I knew he needed a dose. This
refers to "erase block alignment". I'll not bother to explain it here
as many articles have been written on the subject. I will simply state
that attempting to achieve it is a massive waste of time, and only hard
core tweakers bother with it. The same goes for using TRIM.

Why is it a waste of time? Because manufacturers don't publish their
erase block size, for one, nor a whole host of other internal parameters
that dictate the functioning of the device. Add the fact that some
controllers (e.g. Indilinx vs SandForce) behave differently in the way
they stripe, or don't stripe, data across the individual flash chips in
the device.

To do "alignment" correctly one must know how many flash chips are in
the device and how the controller stripes writes, of what size, to each
chip. With an 8 chip SSD, one controller may have a shared bus for each
set of two chips, striping to 4 chips simultaneously. Another
controller may have 8 buses, striping all 8 simultaneously. A very fast
SSD may have 16 chips and 16 buses. No manufacturer makes this type of
data available to the customer. Thus you have to read reviews of your
SSD device at places like Anandtech, to do proper alignment.

Again, at the end of the day, the OP in this thread will notice ZERO
performance difference whether he wastes his time on things like erase
block alignment and TRIM, which is another can of worms. Real time TRIM
or batch TRIM? The XFS devs recommend batch TRIM with a cron job,
because real time TRIM kills performance, with the current Linux
implementation of real time TRIM support. So we've come full circle.

Camp #1 or camp #2?

My original "harsh" response got the point across with about 1000 less
characters. Replace harsh with "direct" or "no bullshit".

Stan


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On Wed, Jul 04, 2012 at 01:03:34AM -0500, Stan Hoeppner wrote:

People often need to be presented with a healthy dose of realism--what
you call "harsh".


Once the OP asked about "alignment" I knew he needed a dose...

I don't need a "dose", thank you. All my questions are valid and you did
a piss poor job of answering them. I did what was required before I posted to the
list: I Googled for 2 days; found a lot of conflicting information; found
information that might be outdated considering the changes in SSD flash and
controllers.

I'm not a tweaker; I need to get work done on my laptop. Also, I need the
drive to perform reliably for as long as possible. My data is important to me
and I try to use my computer hardware for as long as possible --not
subscribing to the idea of disposable consumerism that is prevalent today.

Again, at the end of the day, the OP in this thread will notice ZERO
performance difference whether he wastes his time on things like erase
block alignment and TRIM, which is another can of worms. Real time TRIM
or batch TRIM? The XFS devs recommend batch TRIM with a cron job,
because real time TRIM kills performance, with the current Linux
implementation of real time TRIM support. So we've come full circle.

From what I Googled:

TRIM support is included in the latest kernels and
hdparm utility. Are you telling me that the kernel kernel devs included
useless code that I should not bother with?

"Alignment" was mentioned in several "Debian" websites including the SSD
wiki. It was valid for me to ask.

Camp #1 or camp #2?
My original "harsh" response got the point across with about 1000 less
characters. Replace harsh with "direct" or "no bullshit".

Stan, you gave me rant because you assumed my computer case has lots of blue
LEDs. You can try again or just don't bother.

Nick


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