A DM/DD should know how to watch his mouth (code of conduct).

March 04th, 2012 - 04:50 pm ET by Sergio Cipolla | Report spam
Hello.
I'm just a Debian user for some years and I'm writing to this list
because I found that at
http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugr...i?bugf0814 the Debian
Multimedia maintainer Fabian Greffrath was very wrong, by being not
only wrong in what he said but also very impolite.
I wrote to a follow-up of that bug report (
http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugr...i?bugf0924 ) about what I
thought of it:
"Fabian, who do you think you are to call d-m-o's packages as 'crappy'?
d-m-o is a traditional and very respected 3rd party repository for
Debian and has been for years.
I can't tell the same of you.
You know very well why it uses an epoch in their versioning: exactly
so as people that want/need to use the extra features/packages it
provides don't mix what shouldn't be mixed with the official Debian
packages.
I'm not sure if you're a Debian Maintainer or not (or worse, Debian
Developer) but this kind of big mouthing shouldn't be accepted from a
DM/DD.
If I find out the proper channel for this I'll raise this subject so
as the Debian contributors know that they should measure their words
otherwise they should step down (even a 'do-ocracy' has its limits)."
So I'm writing to this list to raise this subject that a DM/DD should
stand to a minimum level of respect, specially when talking about
fellow contributors (even unofficial).
Maybe this is already in some sort of code-of-conduct for someone
applying for DM but if it's not, I leave here my suggestion.


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#1 Russ Allbery
March 04th, 2012 - 05:00 pm ET | Report spam
Sergio Cipolla writes:

I'm just a Debian user for some years and I'm writing to this list
because I found that at
http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugr...i?bugf0814 the Debian
Multimedia maintainer Fabian Greffrath was very wrong, by being not
only wrong in what he said but also very impolite.
I wrote to a follow-up of that bug report (
http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugr...i?bugf0924 ) about what I
thought of it:
"Fabian, who do you think you are to call d-m-o's packages as 'crappy'?
d-m-o is a traditional and very respected 3rd party repository for
Debian and has been for years.
I can't tell the same of you.



Er... the first person to use the word "crappy" in that entire bug
discussion is, um, you. Usually when you put quote marks around things
that's supposed to indicate that it's a quote.

That whole bug discussion is rather frustrating due to a collection of
misunderstandings and misconceptions that weren't made easier by a very
aggressive bug reporter, but it looks like it mostly got sorted out. I'm
not seeing, in that thread, what you're upset about; Fabian could have
probably phrased a few things better, but he de-escalated a
confrontational bug report reasonably well.

Russ Allbery () <http://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/>


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#2 Russ Allbery
March 04th, 2012 - 05:10 pm ET | Report spam
"Thomas Preud'homme" writes:
Le dimanche 4 mars 2012 22:55:46, Russ Allbery a écrit :

Er... the first person to use the word "crappy" in that entire bug
discussion is, um, you. Usually when you put quote marks around things
that's supposed to indicate that it's a quote.



You probably missed [1] then.

[1] http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugr...ugf0814#10



Ah, it's in the other referenced bug. Sorry about that. Yeah, I wouldn't
have recommended that approach and that probably is what caused a chunk of
the escalation to start with.

But I stand by my impression of the subsequent discussion: Fabian backed
the discussion back down again and it seems to have become much more
cordial.

Russ Allbery () <http://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/>


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#3 Thomas Preudhomme
March 04th, 2012 - 05:10 pm ET | Report spam

Le dimanche 4 mars 2012 22:55:46, Russ Allbery a écrit :
Sergio Cipolla writes:
> I'm just a Debian user for some years and I'm writing to this list
> because I found that at
> http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugr...bug=660814 the Debian
> Multimedia maintainer Fabian Greffrath was very wrong, by being not
> only wrong in what he said but also very impolite.
> I wrote to a follow-up of that bug report (
> http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugr...bug=660924 ) about what I
> thought of it:
> "Fabian, who do you think you are to call d-m-o's packages as 'crappy'?
> d-m-o is a traditional and very respected 3rd party repository for
> Debian and has been for years.
> I can't tell the same of you.

Er... the first person to use the word "crappy" in that entire bug
discussion is, um, you. Usually when you put quote marks around things
that's supposed to indicate that it's a quote.


You probably missed [1] then.

[1] http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugr...=660814#10

That whole bug discussion is rather frustrating due to a collection of
misunderstandings and misconceptions that weren't made easier by a very
aggressive bug reporter, but it looks like it mostly got sorted out. I'm
not seeing, in that thread, what you're upset about; Fabian could have
probably phrased a few things better, but he de-escalated a
confrontational bug report reasonably well.







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#4 Fernando Lemos
March 04th, 2012 - 05:10 pm ET | Report spam
Hi,

On Sun, Mar 4, 2012 at 6:28 PM, Sergio Cipolla wrote:
Hello.
I'm just a Debian user for some years and I'm writing to this list
because I found that at
http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugr...i?bugf0814 the Debian
Multimedia maintainer Fabian Greffrath was very wrong, by being not
only wrong in what he said but also very impolite.



Why is he wrong in what he said? Don't take me wrong, I'm a d-m.o user
myself, but Fabian is entitled to his opinion.

I wrote to a follow-up of that bug report (
http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugr...i?bugf0924 ) about what I
thought of it:
"Fabian, who do you think you are to call d-m-o's packages as 'crappy'?
d-m-o is a traditional and very respected 3rd party repository for
Debian and has been for years.



That's way off-topic in the context of that bug report.

I can't tell the same of you.



Yes, let's make this personal. Classy.

You know very well why it uses an epoch in their versioning: exactly
so as people that want/need to use the extra features/packages it
provides don't mix what shouldn't be mixed with the official Debian
packages.



And how does that have anything to do with the fact that installing
packages from outside the Debian repositories can introduce
incompatibilities with software installed from the Debian
repositories?

I'm not sure if you're a Debian Maintainer or not (or worse, Debian
Developer) but this kind of big mouthing shouldn't be accepted from a
DM/DD.
If I find out the proper channel for this I'll raise this subject so
as the Debian contributors know that they should measure their words
otherwise they should step down (even a 'do-ocracy' has its limits)."
So I'm writing to this list to raise this subject that a DM/DD should
stand to a minimum level of respect, specially when talking about
fellow contributors (even unofficial).
Maybe this is already in some sort of code-of-conduct for someone
applying for DM but if it's not, I leave here my suggestion.



While I personally would try to avoid the language Fabian used, asking
a maintainer to step down solely because of this incident is
ridiculous. Fabian's language in those bug reports isn't uncommon in
the free software community, deal with it.

Someone call the whambulance, quick.

Regards,


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#5 Philipp Kern
March 04th, 2012 - 05:20 pm ET | Report spam
On 2012-03-04, Sergio Cipolla wrote:
"Fabian, who do you think you are to call d-m-o's packages as 'crappy'?
d-m-o is a traditional and very respected 3rd party repository for
Debian and has been for years.



It's not. It's neither traditional nor very respected. At least not in the
developer community. The packages do have defects. There's a reason why
they're not in the official archive.

Kind regards
Philipp Kern, who'd like to see mythtv in the official archive, though


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