"Houston, we have a probleme"

On Sunday 17 July 2011 04:39 in alt.os.linux, Thunder (4920 Søllested)
enlightened humanity with the following words...:

Hello guys, I tried to set up a system that could run CNC and CAD/CAM
and I chose PCLinuxOS 2011 LXDE, that was a really bad idea. The
floppy drive did not work, and it didn't find the PCI USB 1.1 board
that I had inserted, 3D did not work even though the Matrox MGA driver
that was suppose to support this, was installed(the special one for
G200, matroxdriver_mga-x86_32-4.4.4-installer), even if the Xorg.conf
was set up corectly. I tried to solve these problems with the
solutions (SOLVED) provided in PCLinuxOS forum and ond the net(for
LXDE) but it never got to work as described. The user were not in the
floppy group and even though I added him, floppy never showed up in
PCmanFM(other than in SuperUser). He were not member of the Serial,
Parallel or USB group even though I added him(other than if logged in
as root). But you can't keep being logged in as root- or should I say
that is not the point! Though allot of the things work as root!

This all depends on the security model you've set up - check the msec
settings - but the mounting or unmounting of a floppy should not be that
hard.

You have to understand one thing first - since you apparently come from
a Microsoft Windows background - and that is that in order for a
filesystem to be accessible to the system, it must first be mounted.
Windows does this automatically, and the modern GNU/Linux desktops also
do this, but it is always possible that something was not configured
properly. Therefore, you can always mount the floppy as root - or via
"sudo" - and then read from it or write to it as a user, depending on
the mount options.

I would suggest the following reading, in a terminal emulator window...

man mount

man fstab

man sudo

man sudoers

(Use the arrow keys to navigate, press "q" to quit.)

Ok, I know that most PC's nowadays don't have floppy - but who in
their right mind removes it from the distro? That is insane!

It has not been removed from the distro. Floppy drive support is part
of the kernel only, and is still included. And if it's in the kernel,
then the userland tools can handle it.

Besides that, I can live with that there are things that I need to
look up on the net and solve myself when I run into them(thoug I
shouldn't have to considering that PCLinuxOS is the more user friendly
system when comming from windows - but "Houston we have a probleme"),
but the guy who has to get the system can't(even more newbie than I
am), he just want a system he can run CAD/CAM and CNC on, program an
Eprom chip, and program in BASIC or equlant.

No distribution is ever "userfriendly" enough for someone who comes from
the Windows world, because GNU/Linux is not Windows. It is a UNIX
clone, and UNIX works completely differently. Therefore, any and all
attempts to meet the requirements of a Windows user will in the end only
turn out misleading.

The reason for LXDE version of PCLinuxOS was that it runs on old
HW(really great at recognizing things that Ubuntu can't), and this PC
is old(Intel Celeron 1.2Ghz, 324Mb ram, 17GB +10GB Hdd, DVD, Matrox
Millenium G200 8Mb,VIA VT83C572 USB PCI board). No option to change
it(money nor HW wise).

With those specs, it'll support many distros, provided that you don't
opt to use Compiz with Gnome, or KDE 4.

Now I need to start over, and just so we are clear I tried allot if
not most of the distro's for low end systems, that are available out
there ranging form slitaz to ubuntu mini, but I have trouble getting
what I need from the distro's of choice. So I'm asking if someone
here(takin in mind the above) can recommend a distro that gives the
following(or where it can easily be made to work):

Able to make links on the desktop(I know its a taboo) to both HW
devices and file/folders.

This is possible with all modern desktop interfaces - note: not with a
pure window manager only. LXDE, XFCE and Enlightenment should all offer
you that option.

Note: "Folders" are GUI constructs. The proper name for what you are
referring to is "directories". A "folder" does not necessarily
translate as a directory in the filesystem. It could just as easily be
a file, or none of it all.

HW is recognized and set up automatically(Floppy).

Not compiz, but some 3D capability on old HW(for CAD)

Filemanager that allows normal operation (rightclick mouse behaviour)
on the desktop.

CAD/CAM and CNC should be supported and user have access to serial and
parallel(LPT) port.

Access to serial and parallel ports does not work that way. Typically
you have some privileged daemon listening at or servicing the ports, and
unprivileged users can then use the ports by way of the daemon. The
CUPS printing system is such an example, or a getty, which connects to
serial ports.

Repositories should have allot to offer, similar to ubuntu's or
PClinuxOS's.

Most of them do. Debian has the largest, but whether you like Debian or
not is another matter. Arch Linux and Gentoo also have very large
repositories, and can be optimized for your hardware, but this requires
more knowledge and experience. They do however have excellent
documentation.

Lightweight, where the OS don't demand that much Ram but gives more to
programs than the OS itself (thats definately not Ubuntu nowadays -
now its more bloatware like windows, than what it set out to
do(because, where linux not suppose to be different from windows - I
know this is taboo, but I find Ubuntu nowadays similar to windows
Vista).

You are confusing the graphical user interface with the operating
system. The GUI is just a graphical shell sitting on top of the
operating system, like Windows 3.x ran on top of DOS. However, most
desktop-oriented distributions today tend to set things up so that the
system automatically loads the GUI and seems inseparable from it, and
that's because they're trying to cater to the needs - or more correctly
put: the conditioning - of Windows users.

That said, I don't recommend Ubuntu for anything serious. Debian is
similar - Ubuntu is based on Debian - and probably more configurable for
your needs. Slackware is very powerful too, but requires more
experience and more work.

Similiar to Gnome(or gnome on diet) customizable, like gnomenu.
Lightweight like LXDE.

LXDE is as lightweight a desktop environment as they come. XFCE is a
little heavier but still lightweight compared to KDE or Gnome.
Enlightenment is also more lightweight, but perhaps not what you'd like,
coming from Windows.

Not too different in feel and behaviour, from windows 98 - 2000(not
bloatware like XP to present).

There are various degrees of resemblance between certain desktop
environments and Microsoft Windows, and most of them can be configured
to look and feel exactly like you want. But they will never _be_
Microsoft Windows, and it is important for you to realize this, and that
you would adapt to embracing GNU/Linux for what it is, not for what it
isn't.

Aragorn
(registered GNU/Linux user #223157)

Thunder (4920 Søllested) wrote:

[...]
The reason for LXDE version of PCLinuxOS was that it runs on old HW(really
great at recognizing things that Ubuntu can't), and this PC is old(Intel
Celeron 1.2Ghz, 324Mb ram, 17GB +10GB Hdd, DVD, Matrox Millenium G200
8Mb,VIA VT83C572 USB PCI board). No option to change it(money nor HW
wise).

That system should run any recent distro provided you install a sane amount
of applications and use a medium to lightweight window manager. 3D is a
challenge for the G200, but for CAD it may be sufficient?

[...]
Lightweight, where the OS don't demand that much Ram but gives more to
programs than the OS itself (thats definately not Ubuntu nowadays - now
its more bloatware like windows, than what it set out to do(because, where
linux not suppose to be different from windows - I know this is taboo, but
I find Ubuntu nowadays similar to windows Vista).

Who would have thought that I ever jump in to defend Ubuntu, but equating
Ubuntu with Windows Vista is just utter nonsense. There is a lot you can
like or dislike about Ubuntu, but it is no fatter than other distros. On the
contrary, the hdd installation is fairly small. Before you start adding
stuff from repositories, that is. ;-)

Similiar to Gnome(or gnome on diet) customizable, like gnomenu.
Lightweight like LXDE.

There is nothing lightweight about Gnome.

Not too different in feel and behaviour, from windows 98 - 2000(not
bloatware like XP to present).

Basically I need DSL, Slitaz, PCLinuxOS, Lubuntu on diet, xubuntu, Mint,
Peppermint One, OpenSuse, fedora, Puppy, Gnome, LXDE, Android(build on
linux), all smacked into one and got a baby named = .?

Why are you so hooked on this PCLinux thing? You've already found your
application of choice in the repositories of the one distro that has a
reputation of being noob-friendly, so as self-declared noob go and use it.

With Salix OS I could nominate another nifty little distro, but then you'd
have to learn how to build your CNC software from source and even how to
create packages so that other users can share your work. ;-)

Martin

Hope someone can help:)

"Martin" skrev i meddelelsen
news:ivtrc2$619$

Thunder (4920 Søllested) wrote:

[...]
The reason for LXDE version of PCLinuxOS was that it runs on old
HW(really
great at recognizing things that Ubuntu can't), and this PC is old(Intel
Celeron 1.2Ghz, 324Mb ram, 17GB +10GB Hdd, DVD, Matrox Millenium G200
8Mb,VIA VT83C572 USB PCI board). No option to change it(money nor HW
wise).

That system should run any recent distro provided you install a sane
amount
of applications and use a medium to lightweight window manager. 3D is a
challenge for the G200, but for CAD it may be sufficient?

[...]
Lightweight, where the OS don't demand that much Ram but gives more to
programs than the OS itself (thats definately not Ubuntu nowadays - now
its more bloatware like windows, than what it set out to do(because,
where
linux not suppose to be different from windows - I know this is taboo,
but
I find Ubuntu nowadays similar to windows Vista).

Who would have thought that I ever jump in to defend Ubuntu, but equating
Ubuntu with Windows Vista is just utter nonsense. There is a lot you can
like or dislike about Ubuntu, but it is no fatter than other distros. On
the
contrary, the hdd installation is fairly small. Before you start adding
stuff from repositories, that is. ;-)

Similiar to Gnome(or gnome on diet) customizable, like gnomenu.
Lightweight like LXDE.

There is nothing lightweight about Gnome.

Not too different in feel and behaviour, from windows 98 - 2000(not
bloatware like XP to present).

Basically I need DSL, Slitaz, PCLinuxOS, Lubuntu on diet, xubuntu, Mint,
Peppermint One, OpenSuse, fedora, Puppy, Gnome, LXDE, Android(build on
linux), all smacked into one and got a baby named = .?

Why are you so hooked on this PCLinux thing? You've already found your
application of choice in the repositories of the one distro that has a
reputation of being noob-friendly, so as self-declared noob go and use
it.

With Salix OS I could nominate another nifty little distro, but then
you'd
have to learn how to build your CNC software from source and even how to
create packages so that other users can share your work. ;-)

Martin

Hope someone can help:)

PCLinuxOS 2010-12 ran fine except for the problems with floppy and
rightclick on desktop(links), until I updated it - then it started
crashing, freezing and in the middle of everything rebooting the pc. I
cleared the hdd and updated the MBR, then installed Xubuntu 11.04 which did
the same thing after update, and same thing happened with Lubuntu 11.04.
Now thats strange unless there is something in the 11.10 update.

Today I'm testing ram again + hdd + running the Live cd of PCLinuxOS for
several hours and stressing the systeme(did all this + burn-in before
installing anything and there were 0 problems). If it passes then I will
say that the update did it. And then install Peppermint One or ICE. It's
not the first time I have had this kind of probleme before, with ubuntu
variations - on different HW(got my own small workshop).


Med venlig hilsen / With kind regards

Jan Johansson

"Martin" skrev i meddelelsen
news:ivtrc2$619$

Thunder (4920 Søllested) wrote:

[...]
The reason for LXDE version of PCLinuxOS was that it runs on old
HW(really
great at recognizing things that Ubuntu can't), and this PC is old(Intel
Celeron 1.2Ghz, 324Mb ram, 17GB +10GB Hdd, DVD, Matrox Millenium G200
8Mb,VIA VT83C572 USB PCI board). No option to change it(money nor HW
wise).

That system should run any recent distro provided you install a sane
amount
of applications and use a medium to lightweight window manager. 3D is a
challenge for the G200, but for CAD it may be sufficient?

[...]
Lightweight, where the OS don't demand that much Ram but gives more to
programs than the OS itself (thats definately not Ubuntu nowadays - now
its more bloatware like windows, than what it set out to do(because,
where
linux not suppose to be different from windows - I know this is taboo,
but
I find Ubuntu nowadays similar to windows Vista).

Who would have thought that I ever jump in to defend Ubuntu, but equating
Ubuntu with Windows Vista is just utter nonsense. There is a lot you can
like or dislike about Ubuntu, but it is no fatter than other distros. On
the
contrary, the hdd installation is fairly small. Before you start adding
stuff from repositories, that is. ;-)

Similiar to Gnome(or gnome on diet) customizable, like gnomenu.
Lightweight like LXDE.

There is nothing lightweight about Gnome.

Not too different in feel and behaviour, from windows 98 - 2000(not
bloatware like XP to present).

Basically I need DSL, Slitaz, PCLinuxOS, Lubuntu on diet, xubuntu, Mint,
Peppermint One, OpenSuse, fedora, Puppy, Gnome, LXDE, Android(build on
linux), all smacked into one and got a baby named = .?

Why are you so hooked on this PCLinux thing? You've already found your
application of choice in the repositories of the one distro that has a
reputation of being noob-friendly, so as self-declared noob go and use
it.

With Salix OS I could nominate another nifty little distro, but then
you'd
have to learn how to build your CNC software from source and even how to
create packages so that other users can share your work. ;-)

Martin

Hope someone can help:)

Hi Martin, the reason for PCLinuxOS (which is not a thing but a distro that
has been out for many years, build on mandriva) is the excellent HW
detection(it found and configured USB modems before any of the other
distro's even got started). It can run smoothly on a pII 366Mhz, 192Mbram,
6GB hdd IBM TP 570 laptop(IBM is peticular difficult to set up on most
distro's). And the use of it on that old laptop feels like using a much
newer systeme, plus as I said USB modems just work out of the box. The
reason for all this is that the PCLinuxOS uses much smaller amount of ram
than many of the other LXDE distro's.

And btw, it was in this distro I found the CAD and CNC software of my
choice, not Ubuntu.

I tried Salix OS and didn't like it, there were too many "Whoops" that
worked fine in other distro's with the same kernel. I can't give you
examples, since its a while since I tried it and I quicly moved on to
something else - I don't do that unless the feel is OFF - I do research on
the net and solve the problems as they come along.

Yes I'm a noob, but I'm a windows supporter through 23 years and I do my
homework. Did you? Since you didn't know anything about PCLinuxOS.

I said Ubuntu is bloatware like Vista, and will keep saying it untill they
fix the systeme back to what it was before. These days you need a brandnew
pc, or one upgraded to at least 512MB(not recommended) or 1GB, DVD drive,
Big HDD before Ubuntu will run as smoothly as PCLinux does on old HW.

Also they really need to support old graphic cards, not everyone want to
use compiz, and many use linux to revive old HW instead of poluting garbage
dumps around in the world with it. Tell me why compiz can't run on 8Mb or
16Mb cards, when 3D on these cards can be achived in windows. The G200 has
a 250Mhz ramdac. nVidia vanta is a great card that runs 3D games(not the
new ones) smooth in windows, but in ubuntu it is not even recognize but set
up as a noname vesa card. PCLinuxOs finds both cards without a probleme.

I found that the probleme I had with PCLinuxOS LXDE can be resolved (I
can't get PCMan to show the floppy in usermode, only superuser and that is
not acceptable). So I looked to see if Nautilus could be installed instead
and it is possible, and then with some change through terminal it will run
Nautilus instead of PCman when you the icon(in most OS the filemanager is
integrated into the system - I have always disliked this, because if that
crashes so do your systeme), I prefer to use an external filemanager.


I asked in this NG, because I'm new at CAD/CAM and CNC and thought I could
run into someone here that might have a clue to one distro where this kind
of SW would run smoothly.


Med venlig hilsen / With kind regards

Jan Johansson

Thunder (4920 Søllested) wrote:

Also they really need to support old graphic cards, not everyone want to use
compiz, and many use linux to revive old HW instead of poluting garbage dumps
around in the world with it. Tell me why compiz can't run on 8Mb or 16Mb
cards, when 3D on these cards can be achived in windows. The G200 has a 250Mhz
ramdac. nVidia vanta is a great card that runs 3D games(not the new ones)
smooth in windows, but in ubuntu it is not even recognize but set up as a
noname vesa card. PCLinuxOs finds both cards without a probleme.

Running 3D isn't equal with compiz, compiz is an add on for your desktop
environment which utilizes 3D in the same way as microsoft Aero, which also
won't work on older graphics card, no matter if they do support 3D or not.

Ubuntu has it's reasons why detect older cards as vesa (most likely for they
don't want to mess too much with the old drivers which may not work well with
newer kernels and Ubuntu just adds extra eye-candy to Debian).

I asked in this NG, because I'm new at CAD/CAM and CNC and thought I could run
into someone here that might have a clue to one distro where this kind of SW
would run smoothly.

If it runs smoothly on one distribution, you can always make it run as
smoothly on another.




//Aho