how/where to ask questions about dpkg/APT and tools?

Tom Roche wrote:

My dpkg/APT knowledge/skills need to go from near-beginner to at least
intermediate-level fairly quickly, but I have lots questions. Where
to go (e.g., what forums, lists, IRCs, other sites) to ask them?

If you are asking about using APT then this list debian-user is
probably the best place. If you are asking about creating packages
for dpkg/apt then debian-mentors is a better place for packaging
question.

This worked well, because I kept up-to-date and because ubuntu shielded
me from massive breakage. However it does require (more or less)
periodic reinstalls;

Please remember that Ubuntu is not Debian.

In Debian there is a high value placed upon the ability to upgrade
systems. I had systems that were originally installed using Potato
upgraded through Etch. I currently still have systems originally
installed with Woody and now running Squeeze.

However the ability to upgrade does depend upon how much finger poking
into the system the local admin has done. I can show you very quickly
how to take a stock system and immediately break it so severely that
it should not be upgraded. But if you play by the rules then upgrades
forever are perfectly reasonable.

When someone says they needed to re-install a Debian system I
immediately think one of two things. 1) They broke their own system
by doing something nasty. Or 2) They didn't realize that they should
have upgraded.

Having said all of that I will say that Squeeze is the lowest quality
upgrade of any of the Debian releases I have worked through so far. I
am hoping that Wheezy will reverse that trend.

Yesterday I installed LMDE

I know very little about Mint.

However I currently
- have 69 broken packages (per `aptitude`)

Why are the packages broken? No, don't tell me! Tell it to a Mint
user mailing list. This mailing list is for discussion of Debian.
Let's talk about Debian things here.

I suspect getting out of this hole quickly will require more knowledge
of APT and its tools than I currently have, so I'm trying to learn the
interactive `aptitude` via its tutorial

http://algebraicthunk.net/~dburrows/projects/aptitude/doc/en/index.html

I have only very sparingly played with the aptitude interactive
interface. Not liking it very much I have stuck with apt-get. If you
like the interactive interface then that is great. But don't think
that is the only way to go.

* Are there places to ask questions that specialize in APT and its tools?
Esp that are kind to the less advanced practitioner ?-)
* Is this list a good place for APT questions? It's pretty high-volume,
and debian is a much broader topic than APT, but if it's the best
thing available, I can cope.

Right here in debian-user. Where I am sure you will get many
recommendations some of which complement each other and some of which
will conflict with each other. That is the nature of people when you
get a number of them together talking about something. :-)

* Since I'm an LMDE user, should I just stay on its forum?

Debian has officially recognized Mint.

http://www.debian.org/News/weekly/2....html#mint

But I don't think that is enough to say that Mint *is* Debian. And if
it isn't then if you are going to use Mint then I think you should ask
Mint specific questions within Mint venues. After all this is a
Debian mailing list. That just seems fair play to me. You wouldn't
go into a GM shop and ask them about your Ford car would you? Or if
you did you would expect that if the details get too specific they
would say, take it to a Ford shop for Ford expertise?

I suspect my concerns are more generic (i.e., applicable to debian and
any derived distros, not just LMDE), but I Could Be Wrong.

If you keep it generic then that should be fine. But as soon as you
go "but in Mint it has been patched to behave like so" then I would
call foul on it. :-)

Bob





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Tom Roche ( on 2011-08-15 12:35 -0400):

My dpkg/APT knowledge/skills need to go from near-beginner to at least
intermediate-level fairly quickly, but I have lots questions. Where
to go (e.g., what forums, lists, IRCs, other sites) to ask them?
Why I ask:

[..]

However I currently

- have 888 updates (per mu-d)
- have 69 broken packages (per `aptitude`)
- need to get some bigger apps/functions running (e.g., chromium,
libreoffice, DVD playing)
- fear breaking big things (e.g., X, GNOME)

Let's skip the mu-d assessment (Mint upgrade-daemon?), and let's focus
on the broken packages. Usually this means either packages that can't
be upgraded because of missing dependencies or package conflicts (not
too bad), or packages that cannot be installed yet somehow are (oops).

First of all: Ubuntu has a tendency to throw everything and the kitchen
sink into a few toplevel packages. Great for avoiding thinking, bad
for fixing broken packages. Create a new file in /etc/apt/apt.conf.d
with the following line:
APT::Install-Recommends "false";
You can remove it later, but for now it might break some dependency
cycles that prevent you from going forward.

Next, a word of caution: there is a very real possibility of breaking
your system here. Be very careful about packages being removed. As a
general rule, apt-get is safer (less ruthless) than aptitude, and the
aptitude command-line interface is safer (more explicit) than its TUI.

Now for some low-level package administration:

Identify the broken packages (can't test -- there's probably a better
command for this):
$ dpkg -la|grep ^iB

Find out what they do:
$ apt-cache show <package>

Find out where they come from, and what versions are available:
$ apt-cache policy <package>

Find out why a package is installed:
$ aptitude why <package>
or
$ aptitude why <starting-package> <package>

Let apt do the difficult thinking for you:
# apt-get install -f
or
# aptitude install

Forcefully remove a package (DO NOT USE)
# dpkg --force-all -r <package>

I suggest you also take a look at #debian on irc.debian.org, or a
Mint-specific IRC channel if it's available. You will get a much more
immediate response there.


Good luck!
Arno


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summary: I'm a new debian user with some package breakage. I'd appreciate

* assistance with my specific problem (i.e., give me a fish)
* general heuristics for debug package breakage (i.e., teach me to fish)

details: I'm a longtime ubuntu user who switched last week to

$ lsb_release -ds
Linux Mint Debian Edition
$ uname -rv
2.6.39-2-amd64 #1 SMP Tue Jul 5 02:51:22 UTC 2011

While I very much appreciate the better performance I'm getting on LMDE
(which is based on debian testing), I'm also appreciating the extent to
which ubuntu sheltered me from having to learn much about APT :-) So I'd
appreciate your assistance with debugging the following problem:

:~$ aptitude search ?broken

iB acl - Access control list utilities
iB coreutils - GNU core utilities
iB cups - Common UNIX Printing System(tm) - server
iB libacl1-dev - Access control list static libraries and headers
iB libarchive1 - Single library to read/write tar, cpio, pax, zip, iso9660, etc.
iB libgnomevfs2-0 - GNOME Virtual File System (runtime libraries)
iB libisofs6 - library to create ISO9660 images
iB ntfs-3g - read-write NTFS driver for FUSE
iB rsync - fast remote file copy program (like rcp)
iB samba - SMB/CIFS file, print, and login server for Unix

for PACKAGE in $(aptitude -F "%p" search ?broken) ; do
for CMD in \
"apt-cache policy ${PACKAGE}" \
"aptitude why ${PACKAGE}" \
; do
echo -e "${CMD}"
eval "${CMD}"
done
echo
done

apt-cache policy acl
acl:
Installed: 2.2.51-3
Candidate: 2.2.51-3
Version table:
*** 2.2.51-3 0
500 http://debian.linuxmint.com/latest/ testing/main amd64 Packages
100 /var/lib/dpkg/status
aptitude why acl
i libsane Depends acl (>= 2.2.49-4)

apt-cache policy coreutils
coreutils:
Installed: 8.5-1
Candidate: 8.5-1
Version table:
*** 8.5-1 0
500 http://debian.linuxmint.com/latest/ testing/main amd64 Packages
100 /var/lib/dpkg/status
aptitude why coreutils
i xinit Depends coreutils (>= 7.4-1)

apt-cache policy cups
cups:
Installed: 1.4.6-9
Candidate: 1.4.6-9
Version table:
*** 1.4.6-9 0
500 http://debian.linuxmint.com/latest/ testing/main amd64 Packages
100 /var/lib/dpkg/status
aptitude why cups
i cups-driver-gutenprint Depends cups (>= 1.3.0)

apt-cache policy libacl1-dev
libacl1-dev:
Installed: 2.2.51-3
Candidate: 2.2.51-3
Version table:
*** 2.2.51-3 0
500 http://debian.linuxmint.com/latest/ testing/main amd64 Packages
100 /var/lib/dpkg/status
aptitude why libacl1-dev
Unable to find a reason to install libacl1-dev.

apt-cache policy libarchive1
libarchive1:
Installed: 2.8.4-1
Candidate: 2.8.4-1
Version table:
*** 2.8.4-1 0
500 http://debian.linuxmint.com/latest/ testing/main amd64 Packages
100 /var/lib/dpkg/status
aptitude why libarchive1
i libtotem-plparser17 Depends libarchive1 (>= 2.0.25)

apt-cache policy libgnomevfs2-0
libgnomevfs2-0:
Installed: 1:2.24.4-1
Candidate: 1:2.24.4-1
Version table:
*** 1:2.24.4-1 0
500 http://debian.linuxmint.com/latest/ testing/main amd64 Packages
100 /var/lib/dpkg/status
aptitude why libgnomevfs2-0
i lock-keys-applet Depends libgnomevfs2-0 (>= 1:2.17.90)

apt-cache policy libisofs6
libisofs6:
Installed: 1.1.2-1
Candidate: 1.1.2-1
Version table:
*** 1.1.2-1 0
500 http://debian.linuxmint.com/latest/ testing/main amd64 Packages
100 /var/lib/dpkg/status
aptitude why libisofs6
i libbrasero-media0 Depends libisofs6 (>= 0.6.14)

apt-cache policy ntfs-3g
ntfs-3g:
Installed: 1:2011.1.15AR.4+2011.4.12-2
Candidate: 1:2011.1.15AR.4+2011.4.12-2
Version table:
*** 1:2011.1.15AR.4+2011.4.12-2 0
500 http://debian.linuxmint.com/latest/ testing/main amd64 Packages
100 /var/lib/dpkg/status
aptitude why ntfs-3g
i udisks Recommends ntfs-3g

apt-cache policy rsync
rsync:
Installed: 3.0.8-1
Candidate: 3.0.8-1
Version table:
*** 3.0.8-1 0
500 http://debian.linuxmint.com/latest/ testing/main amd64 Packages
100 /var/lib/dpkg/status
aptitude why rsync
i live-tools Suggests rsync

apt-cache policy samba
samba:
Installed: 2:3.5.8~dfsg-5
Candidate: 2:3.5.8~dfsg-5
Version table:
*** 2:3.5.8~dfsg-5 0
500 http://debian.linuxmint.com/latest/ testing/main amd64 Packages
100 /var/lib/dpkg/status
aptitude why samba
i nautilus-share Suggests samba (>= 3.0.27a)

These all seem like things I'd want--definitely samba (gotta cope with
M$), rsync (my backup scripts use), libgnomevfs2-0 (I want
lock-keys-applet, or something with same function), cups (gotta print),
coreutils (who wouldn't want that?). libacl1-dev I only want because it
helped me solve an install problem (details here

http://forums.linuxmint.com/viewtopic.php?f1&ty619&pF2540#p462488

). So I did

for PACKAGE in $(aptitude -F "%p" search ?broken) ; do
for CMD in \
"sudo aptitude install -f ${PACKAGE}" \
; do
echo -e "${CMD}"
eval "${CMD}"
done
echo
done

but that just repeats

No packages will be installed, upgraded, or removed.

So I'm confused. Why does `aptitude` think these packages are broken? If
it's wrong (i.e., the packages are not broken), how do I correct its
misperception? If it's correct, how do I fix the packages, if `aptitude`
won't force install?

Feel free to forward or to point me to FM to RT,
and TIA, Tom Roche


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On 19/08/11 13:20, Tom Roche wrote:

summary: I'm a new debian user

Not yet you're not - confused?
You are still using Ubuntu.

Debian makes potatoes.
Ubuntu mashes the Debian potatoes, dries them, adds stuff, and
repackages - to make a variety of potato based products.
Mint uses Ubuntu instant potato mix as a basis for a vegetable based meal.

Apparently the instructions on the side of the packages made by Ubuntu
and Mint aren't very good - so people come here asking about potatoes

with some package breakage. I'd appreciate

* assistance with my specific problem (i.e., give me a fish)
* general heuristics for debug package breakage (i.e., teach me to fish)

details: I'm a longtime ubuntu user who switched last week to

$ lsb_release -ds
Linux Mint Debian Edition
$ uname -rv
2.6.39-2-amd64 #1 SMP Tue Jul 5 02:51:22 UTC 2011

While I very much appreciate the better performance I'm getting on LMDE
(which is based on debian testing), I'm also appreciating the extent to
which ubuntu sheltered me from having to learn much about APT :-) So I'd
appreciate your assistance with debugging the following problem:

The best way to learn apt is to use it :-)
Aptitude != apt.

:~$ aptitude search ?broken

iB acl - Access control list utilities
iB coreutils - GNU core utilities
iB cups - Common UNIX Printing System(tm) - server
iB libacl1-dev - Access control list static libraries and headers
iB libarchive1 - Single library to read/write tar, cpio, pax, zip, iso9660, etc.
iB libgnomevfs2-0 - GNOME Virtual File System (runtime libraries)
iB libisofs6 - library to create ISO9660 images
iB ntfs-3g - read-write NTFS driver for FUSE
iB rsync - fast remote file copy program (like rcp)
iB samba - SMB/CIFS file, print, and login server for Unix

<snipped>

So I'm confused. Why does `aptitude` think these packages are broken? If
it's wrong (i.e., the packages are not broken), how do I correct its
misperception? If it's correct, how do I fix the packages, if `aptitude`
won't force install?

Feel free to forward or to point me to FM to RT,

But we have Really Fine Manuals here ;-p

and TIA, Tom Roche

Mint != Debian, so you will get more relevant answers asking on Mint
forums. Regardless of how helpful Debian users wish to be, we have
little information on how Mint changes things - only that they do. In
most cases your problems will be specific to Mint, and only confusing to
Debian. I appreciate that Mint is regarded as Debian's red-headed step
son - but even if someone here can help - it won't help the Mint community.

I understand that you're trying to illustrate what you think is not
working (ie. shown by Aptitude as broken but what is it that *is
not* working?

Are any of repositories that you use Debian repositories?
NOTE: Debian style is not Debian.

What does:-
# apt-get update; apt-get -sf install
output?

When you've tried that (and noted the results), what does:-
# apt-get -s install rsync
output?

Please paste both outputs to your post (with the other answers).


Cheers

"I love the Pope, I love seeing him in his Pope-Mobile, his three feet
of bullet proof plexi-glass. That's faith in action folks! You know he's
got God on his side."
~ Bill Hicks


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On 08/18/11 21:28, Scott Ferguson wrote:

On 19/08/11 13:20, Tom Roche wrote:

summary: I'm a new debian user

Not yet you're not - confused?
You are still using Ubuntu.

Debian makes potatoes.
Ubuntu mashes the Debian potatoes, dries them, adds stuff, and
repackages - to make a variety of potato based products.
Mint uses Ubuntu instant potato mix as a basis for a vegetable based meal.

Actually, I just checked the Linux Mint pages. Apparently Linux Mint
Debian Edition is based directly on Testing, with a rolling release.
They also have their regular version which is based on Ubuntu with
discrete releases.

So LMDE does not use Ubuntu's 'instant potato mix', but it does mash its
own. They *claim* to be 100% compatible with Debian and NOT compatible
with Ubuntu.

Tom, where is your /etc/apt/sources.list is pointing to? Is it pointing
to a Mint repository? Could it be pointing to their standard Ubuntu
based repository? That would almost certainly cause breakage. If it is
pointing to Debian repositories LMDE may not be as 100% compatible as
they say.

Marc Shapiro


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